DECEMBER 1998 ARCHIVE 
11 December 1998 thru 28 December 1998
 
 
Date sent: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:51:01 -0600
From: Lee Miller <motive@idt.net>
Send reply to: motive@idt.net
Subject: Re: Lee: Re: Data sites
 
Hi Steve,
 
http://www.esosoft.com/primus/Weather/aw_indx.html
Weather Watchers web site Site holds charts for; the citys where 
hurricanes have made landfall the event charts for tornadoes, 
thunderstorms, snowstorms and floods. For events the Mercury 
ingress, Solar ingress and previous Moon phase are shown. 
A large selections of weather sites and information on weather 
classes are included. 
 
Jupiter 3
Event data site:
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/palette/276/index.html
 
Data site for:
World charts, stock market charts, event charts.
Both sites ask the visitor for any data that they might have to add 
to the site to expand the data base for the use of all astrologers. 
I'd also like to put your links up on the weather site. The students 
could do well to use the Uranian dial and planets when they look at 
the weather charts. If you have ever looked at any weather charts 
I'd like your ideas on the usefulness of the methods in these 
charts. I could put it up on the site as an article and give it lots of 
PHGR (pointing here, good reading) on at least to of the sites. 
We have a chart for the Galveston Hurrican of 1900 that doesn't 
show the regular indicators that it was a record breaking storm, I 
think that it probably does with the MP's. If you would be interested 
in looking at that one I can send you the data for it. 
 
Thanks,
Lee 
Lady of the Dragons 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:26:14 +1300
Subject: %% Considerations Magazine
 
Dear Group,
 
Ed Falis (author of the House Systems article on the 101 web site) 
sent me a letter and mentioned "Considerations" magazine. Here 
is an extract from his letter, followed by an extract from 
Considerations magazine's web site.
- Moderator Steve Lee
 
<< You might also want to recommend the latest Considerations 
http://www.considerations-mag.com to your group - there's a good 
article by Richard Vetter on why and how he thinks astrology 
works, where he raises the same point (synchronistically in this 
case, since I received the magazine an hour or so after that 
insight). Don't agree with everything he says, but it's good, serious 
thinking about the issues. >>
 
Considerations is an independent magazine, unrelated to any 
astrological group or organization. It has no special axe to grind; no 
proprietary viewpoint. Our subject is Astrology in its entirety. We're 
excited by all aspects: fascinated by the inevitable progress of the 
seasons, curious about the ordered rhythms of the heavenly bodies 
and how these relate to human life. 
 
 
The articles we publish are written by some of the world's better 
astrologers. We're truly international. Writers in recent issues live 
in Australia, Canada, England, France, Germany, Guatemala, Italy, 
New Zealand, Scotland, Slovakia, South Africa, Switzerland, the 
United Arab Emirates, and the United States. Considerations is 
filled with stimulating ideas, fresh research, thoughtful analyses, 
and always provocative writing. We avoid publishing articles that 
are based on unsubstantiated opinion. 
 
Naturally there's an emphasis on the astrology of the individual, yet 
articles on horary, mundane, corporate and financial matters are 
regularly featured, as well as those dealing with the history of our 
subject. We consider the horoscope as a dynamic, not static, 
entity, and encourage articles that deal with the progression, 
direction, and rectification of the birth chart. We delight in the arts 
of love and war, in public affairs and private lives-always from an 
astrological viewpoint. We consider all facets of astrology, both 
ancient and modern. 
 
The magazine has a single, simple aim: to provide our readers, 
whether they're students, teachers, researchers, professional 
consultants, or simply astro-buffs, with a wealth of interesting, 
innovative, thought-provoking and well-researched writing on 
astrology. We're continuing what we began in 1983. Considerations 
is published four times a year. There are no advertisements. We've 
thrived for the past 15 years purely on the strength of the articles 
we provide to our subscribers. 
 
The different pages on our website are designed to provide you with 
an understanding of the wealth of astrological writing that 
Considerations magazine provides. 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:40:58 +1300
Subject: %% Ineke: SF4 dial discrepancies
 
From: "Bob & Ineke Vear-Schep" <b.i.vear-schep@clear.net.nz>
Subject: My Email to Marion
Date sent: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:49:17 +1300
 
[ Moderator's note: Several days ago Ineke presented some questions 
about doing dial work with a real physical dial, versus Solar Fire's on-
screen dial. She has now supplied the details, and has given permission 
for this to be a group post. This is good material here, and I look forward to 
the next installment. - Steve ]
 
Dear Steve,
 
I am just sending this to Marion and thought you may think it could be
helpful to other students. 
 
Regards Ineke
---------------
Dear Marion,
 
Thank you very much for offering to help us with our problem. Firstly I have 
Solar Fire 4. The movable dial we talk about is the paper one Steve put on 
the internet for the students. By hand work we mean doing the work with a 
hand held disk on the printed copy of the 22 30 chart. The chart we have 
started to use is my one ( Ineke) 17 Dec 1951 8 03am Indonesia SSUT-
7hrs 02s45 107e38 We are also using Liz's chart and having similar 
problems. 
 
At this time we have only worked with the Ar point and MC. Only using the 
30 min orb. We get M =Ju A / Mo Po S F (solar fire) midpoint trees gives 
M=Mo/A (which could be slightly out) and M=Ju/Po but not the other 2 
combinations. We get M=No Ve/Cu SF centre of the chart on the screen 
gives M=Ve/Cu (the only planetary picture it gives ) , the M=No/Cu is in the 
midpoint trees Another we get M=Pl Ha/kr SF midpoint trees 
givesM=Po/Kr (which is wider) and not M = Kr/Ha (which is closer). 
The midpoint trees gives M=Ch/Po we think this is 35 min orb M=Ch/Ur 
we think this is 45min orb M=Ma/Ch we think this is 45 or even 50 min orb 
M=Ju/Zu we think it's 48 orb but doesn't give M=A/Zu (yet Ju is conj A ) It 
also gives M=Ve/Ne we think it's a 65 min orb yet we set 30min orb for the 
lot. Liz did notice while we worked all this out yesterday that from the 
midpoint of Ve/Ne the M is just in the 30min orb, but when we put the 0 
degree movable dial on the M (printed chart so hand work) and worked 
round then the M is out of orb i.e. Ve is 10 degrees and Ne is 9 degrees. 
Have we partly worked out our problem re the planetary pictures given in 
mid point trees that we think are too wide or are we working out our 
planetary pictures wrong and solar fire is right. We still have the problem of 
the ones SF doesn't give. 
 
Is it maybe that Solar Fire doesn't really do Uranian calculations and we 
should do them by hand. Also in Planetary trees there is e g -0 03 min and 
+0 03 min and also + 0 07d etc. What does that mean? I hope all this 
makes sense to you and that an explanation can be found. Thank you for all 
your time and trouble. 
 
Regards Ineke and Liz.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:32:31 +1300
Subject: %% New Web Site Links
[ Moderator's Update ] New Web Site Links
 
Dear Group,
 
The web site links have been updated on the 101 site.
Your link may be here ! Many new links have been added. Here is a list of 
the links, copied from the web site, but you will want to surf over to the site 
itself so you can the information easier, and perhaps click on the URL if it 
does not work on this email.
 
Go to: 
http://members.tripod.com/~junojuno2/links.htm
 
Or just go to the main page and follow along until 
you see the 'Link' button:
http://members.tripod.com/~junojuno2/
 
Happy surfing ...
 
Steve
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
Web Site Links
 
Featured first are the web sites of 101 and Uranian members.
Penny Bertulucci's Penelope Publications 
email her at: <pb@gate.net> 
http://www.gate.net/~pb/Index.html 
 
In my (Steve's) opinion, this is THE place to get your Uranian materials. 
Penny is internationally known as an Uranian astrologer and has contributed
more to this field than anyone else that I know of (outside of Germany,
that is). You will find a common interactive German/English site 
connected to Ludwig Rudolph's grandson Michael Feist's site from Hamburg, 
Germany. There are a number of book reviews available and Michael
downloads articles from time to time and broadcasts his uranian 
astrology computer program which has been upgraded. 
 
Hamish's 'Astrology House' 
http:// www.astrologyhouse.co.nz 
 
This informative site has several worthwhile articles and book reviews, 
as well as details of the new software program Janus. Have a look at the 
astrocartography maps of the Dalai Lama and other interesting graphics. 
If you are considering purchasing new astrological software, be sure to investigate 
what this excellent program has to offer. It is considered by some experienced 
Uranians and Cosmobiologists to be the best program available. For other Janus 
charts, see also Dechen's site, but here are the official pages: 
http://www.astrologyhouse.co.nz/janusmainfeatures.htm 
 
http://www.astrologyhouse.co.nz/janusmenu.htm 
 
Albert's Web Site 
Located in St. Petersburg, Russia 
Look for the English pages on Alfred Witte, which is excellent. 
http://www.Astrologer.ru 
 
Dechen's Web Site 
 
This began with the Buddha's chart, and will have 
much more for you to investigate. 
There are several excellent colour Janus charts, with explanations - a 
good way to learn Uranian techniques. 
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/6357/ 
 
Ron's Web Site 
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/academy/7519/index.html 
 
Ron has a Web site which caters mainly for beginners. Check out the 
"400,000 + combinations of any given chart.
This site must be the biggest resource for Astrologers on the 
internet: Free software can be downloaded; they cater for almost every 
branch of Astrology, at least three programs do midpoints. 
 
Update Nov. 98: 
I have added another eight programs making 38 in all. 
I have updated my links page and it now includes both of your sites. 
 
Best regards,
Ron
ron@panther.netmania.co.uk 
 
Lee's Web Site - A better and prettier index for Uranian & 
Cosmobiology books (same info as Steve's main
Uranian site, as of 9 Sept. 98). Look for new additions besides the 
books. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/9719/res.htm 
 
Carl's UK Astrometeorology Web Site 
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/cmatthews/astromet.htm 
 
An Astrometeorological site dedicated to weather in the UK.Sidereal 
techniques are explored plus the use of ingress charts, midpoints 
and Uranian hypotheticals. It is hoped the site will promote 
correspondence with like minded astrometeorologists. 
 
Sharon's Canadian Sites 
http://www.intranet.ca/~smcinnis 
 
This site is her personal web site and has some info on an upcoming 
astrology conferences in Toronto, along with various other non-astrological 
material including a links page with some astrological items. 
The second site, Canadian Astrological Data, is a fledgling collection 
of data for Canadian celebrities, politicians, places and events. More 
data will be added and there is a links page on that site as well. 
http://mbr-lifestyle.neotown.com/S_McInnis 
 
I have a very long article entitled 
"The Prediction of Death and the Alchochoden" 
over at the Zodiacal Zephyr Astrological Resources website 
at: http://www.zodiacal.com  The address to access directly this article 
is as follows: http://www.zodiacal.com/articles/death.htm 
 
I have some other long articles on astrological technique at other sites, 
including a very long document on Rectification of the Ascendant over 
at the WebFest pages of Lee Miller, the owner of the Horary Today 
mailing list. 
- Dr. Gonzalo Pena Tamez 
 
Matrix 
EveB1@aol.com 
 
In as much as I am a Matrix Rep. May I have my E-mail address added to 
your site to Matrix for information about their software? I have been with 
them for at least 15 years. In fact I was the first Rep they hired when they 
decided to have Reps. :-) Thank you for any considerations. Eve 
 
"Diana K. Rosenberg" ye-stars@ix.netcom.com 
 
I have a fixed star website that contains an article that combines Uranian 
and fixed stars - it's at http://pw1.netcom.com/~ye-stars/index.htm 
 
The article is called "An Ancient Horoscope" Yes, I'd like that. My site 
comes up as Fixed Stars and Constellations - I know that's also Anne 
Wright's title, but l'd like to keep it. Anne and I are very friendly and I don't 
think she'd mind. 
 
C. Michael & Jacquie Smith/SOS Consulting - sos@netonecom.net
 
You just have to stop and see: http://users.netonecom.net/~sos is the main 
Home page, http://sos.netonecom.net is the personal server page. Full of all
kinds of information and downloadable software, charts, maps and other things.
 
(non-member sites follow...) 
 
ARLENE KRAMER'S ARTICLE ABOUT URANIAN ASTROLOGY 
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/9719/uranianlessons/page1.html 
 
Want to know the 'ins and outs' or Uranian Astrology and dial 
techniques ? This is it... 
This is a MUST for all Midpoints 101 list members to read ! 
 
Michael's Astrologic Software Site 
Steve's note: Michael lives in Hamburg, Germany, and is considered 
one of the top experts in Hamburg School ("Uranian") Astrology 
(remember, this is what Alfred Witte started - in Hamburg. Astrologic 
software is THE program to get if you are dedicated to the excellence 
of the Hamburg teachings. 
From: ALOGICPC@aol.com 
Date sent: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:53:40 EDT 
 
A 'Hello' from Germany. I put a Link form my site to yours. 
 
With many greetings, Michael 
http://members.aol.com/alogicpc 
 
Weather Watchers web site Site holds charts for; the citys where 
hurricanes have made landfall the event charts for tornadoes, 
thunderstorms, snowstorms and floods. For events the 
Mercury ingress, Solar ingress and previous Moon phase are shown. 
http://www.esosoft.com/primus/Weather/aw_indx.html 
 
A large selections of weather sites and information on weather 
classes are included. 
 
Jupiter 3 Event data site: 
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/palette/276/index.html 
 
Data site for: World charts, stock market charts, event charts. 
Both sites ask the visitor for any data that they might have to add 
to the site to expand the data base for the use of all astrologers. 
We have a chart for the Galveston Hurrican of 1900 that doesn't 
show the regular indicators that it was a record breaking storm, I 
think that it probably does with the MP's. 
 
MATRIX celebrity database on the web at: 
http://205.186.189.2/ms/ms_astro_search.html 
 
Declination web site http://www.mtsq.com/decl 
 
The web site is the declination Sig site--mentions about the newsletter 
and how to join the group. We do a 20 page 8X11 quarterly at $15 a 
year domestically $18 to Canada and Mexicoand $20 elsewhere all in US Funds. 
Been around since 1996 and I am the editor--site has a page for 
resources, software and books relative to declination with links to the 
source from which to buy--not many resource for declinations exist. Thrid page is an
article "about declinations" entitled Declination: the Hidden Hinge Pin. 
 
Treehouse Mountain Mailing List 
 
The kinks have been worked out and the mailing list is up and running. 
Martha extends her invitation to join us for lively discussion and lots of 
the same fun you may have experienced on the AOL message boards. 
If I've missed anybody, please forward the invitation. 
To subscribe to the list, visit the website http://www.onelist.com 
Do a search for "hekate". Then subscribe. 
 
Eclipses 
http://www.mm.com/user/pdoughty/AOcharts/Eclipses/Eclipses.html 
 
I was delighted to find that it is an astrological site. 
Its charts include the 4 asteroids and Chiron, but unfortunately not the 
Uranians. 
I carried away three souvenirs: 
"Eclipse of the Century" 11 August 1999 
"Horoscope of Modern Humanity" 26 April 1892 
"First Continental Congress Eclipse" 5 Sept. 1774 
There are charts and mind-blowing articles for each of these Eclipses 
and many others. There are Eclipses there named after famous people and events. 
 
Best wishes to all, Marion 
 
Just found another one of Lynda Hill's excellent and insightful articles on 
the web. Here she is using Sabian Symbols to analyze the Clinton/Monica 
crisis. 
 
"BILL, MONICA, STARR AND TRIPP" 
- An American Epidemic By Lynda Hill" 
http://www.starflash.com/zodiac/LyndaHill.htm 
 
I just want to direct your attention to an article by Bruce Scofield, 
published by "The Mountain Astrologer" magazine (August/September 
of 1998), entitled "Were They Astrologers?". A small portion of the article 
deals with possible contributions by astronomer/mathematician/astrologer 
Johannes Kepler to the Hamburg School. You might try accessing the 
article at The Mountain Astrologer website: 
http://www.mountainastrologer.com/697toc.html 
 
Scofield mentions Kepler's work, "The Harmony of the World", only 
recently translated into English from German (published 1997).
In Scofield's words: "This work was the climax of his [Kepler's] lifelong obsession
with astrology, astronomy, numbers, and music. Kepler himself thought 
this book to be the best thing that had come along in metaphysics since Plato." 
Also, "Uranian astrology of the 20th century has built a system based
on many of his ideas." 
 
I want to note that I haven't yet read this book. 
I see that it may be special ordered through Amazon.com (hardcover only): 
The Harmony of the World (Memoirs of the American Philosophical 
Society, Vol 209) by Johannes Kepler, E. J. Aiton (Translator),
A. M. Duncan (Translator), J. V. Field, $60.00 (US). 
 
--Bill 
 
 
 
INSTITUTE FOR ASTROENERGETIC STUDIES 
 
Astrological research institute, specialized in data collecting (Taeger-Archives). 
With articles (e.g. Chiron, Vesta, Buddhism)and bio of Hans Taeger, a 
former student of Reinhold Ebertin. 
-IAS- (Est. 1975) Hans-Hinrich Taeger & Thomas Siegfried et al. 
Glenview-House, IRL-PORTSALON, Co. Donegal, Ireland 
Tel +353-74-59223 or 59222 (-evenings only) Fax +353-74-59331 
Email <taeger@iol.ie> ICQ#10493066 
Website http://www.iol.ie/~taeger 
With kind regards from County Donegal, Ireland Hans 
 
Here's a list of links to articles on the web that may be of interest to the group members. 
- Lea 
 
MIDPOINTS by Jamie Longstreet 
http://hudson.idt.net/~motive/midpoints.htm 
 
HOW MIDPOINTS AFFECT THE STOCK MARKET 
By Alphee Lavoie 
http://www.alphee.com/farticle.htm 
 
The Uranian Planets by Michael Erlewine 
http://205.186.189.2/na/uranian.htm 
 
Advanced Techniques (Uranian Astrology) by Arlene Kramer 
http://www.astronet.com/advanced/articles/techniques1.html 
 
http://www.astronet.com/advanced/articles/techniques2.html 
 
http://www.astronet.com/advanced/articles/techniques3.html 
 
AN ANCIENT HOROSCOPE (Uranian Astrology & Fixed Stars) 
Diana K. Rosenberg 
http://pw1.netcom.com/~ye-stars/index.htm 
 
Cosmobiology 
Some Points on Cosmobiology by Veronica Chlap 
http://www.newage.com.au/astrology/cosmobiology.html 
 
BTW, there's a great website with a lot of interesting material about 
Harmonic astrology (articles and Freeware to download) at the following 
URL ("Universal Rhythms"): 
http://www.ohio.net/~ksquared/rhythms/index.html 
 
A list of Witte's articles in German at: 
http://www.hermes-astrologie.com/litwitte.htm 
 
BTW, the main index page for German astrologers' publications is at: 
http://www.hermes-astrologie.com/1literat.htm 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Date sent: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:31:11 +0530 (IST)
From: Dinesh <drt@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in>
Subject: Dial Help.
 
Hello Lee, Raylee and All,
 
First and foremost, I am must apologize for sending in this question by
being an anonymous. 
 
Thank you, Lee and Raylee, for responding to my call for help.
I will start with the very basic. Some of the questions I have are just
too basic, but I was hoping to learn and decided to ask them. I am sorry
if many find my questions too basic or boring. Please bear with me. 
 
I am using hand made dial. I am taking a drawing card paper and fixing the
90 Deg dial on the card paper. I place a blank paper between the card
paper and the dial for noting down planetary positions. 
So, my first question is, is the above method right or wrong? Any
suggestions / ideas on improving the above method? 
 
Now, how does one note down the planets? :) I mean, what kind of details
does one include. I am using a dash to indicate the degree position of the
planet and at the end place the glyph for the planet or trans-neptune. Now
the problem starts. Should I include degree and sign details or just leave
it for clarity ? Because if I do include, the charts gets jumbled up. If I
don't I am having problem as to how to know whether a particular planet is
in conjunction or square? 
 
Another practical problem with hand made dials. The tack hole is 
sometimes big and hence the dial shifts are little, which can cause degree 
position to change and this is a big problem if one is using an orb of 1 
degree. Any suggestions here? 
 
Jumping to the Dial Detective. On Page 6, there is an example showing 
the relationship between planets and midpoints. Here it is easy, as the 2 
dots of 22Deg 30Mins help. This method is good for planets having wider 
degree of arc on the 90 Degree dial. But when we go to page 11 and 12, it 
says that Aries = MC/Cupido. Now here the 2 points are 2 close to be able 
to use the 22Deg30Min dots. How can one find this point? Does one count 
and see whether the points is at the midpoint of the 2 planets? Similarly for 
the whole tree given on Page 12. I am still struggling with this. 
I again apologize for asking such simple and basic questions.
 
Thank you for all the help,
Namaste,
Dinesh
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
From: Marion@gti.net
Date sent: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:40:30 -0500
Subject: %%Marion to Ineke: SF4 dial discrepancies
 
> [ Moderator's note: Several days ago Ineke presented some questions
> about doing dial work with a real physical dial, versus Solar Fire's on-
> screen dial. She has now supplied the details, and has given permission
> for this to be a group post. This is good material here, and I look
> forward to the next installment. - Steve ]
 
Dear Ineke and Fellow Uranians, 5:30pm Tuesday 
 
Well, Ineke, this is not going to be one of those letter which 
start out with 'I've got good news for you and bad news.' <G> 
All my findings about your dial inconsistencies are good news 
for you and for Solar Fire.
 
I'll take your mid-point questions in a minute but, first, if you 
are new to this subject, it would be much better for you to 
work with a 90-degree dial or at the most a 45-degree. With a 
90-degree chart you can better see what's going on and have 
immediate mathematical proof on the spot of your findings. 
You can, of course, do this with a 45-degree or 22.5-degree 
dial, but the math gets much more complicated to understand 
what's happening.
 
Solar Fire is correct in everything you mention about your paperwork. Your 
problem in not being able to reconcile your findings with theirs was that you 
had occasionally slipped into another dimension in your paperwork. You 
had dropped from a 22-1/2 degee to an 11-1/4 degree world. This is a 
mathematical peculiarity of all dials, but with a 90-degree dial you could 
have easily seen mathematically when you were slipping into 45-degree 
midpoints. 
 
Let me see if I can explain. You've given me an opening by 
saying that the MC at 00Vir21 on Solar Fire's 2-1/2 deg chart 
is conjunct the North Node, which is directly across the dial at 
4Pisc15. Actually, it isn't, it's merely directly across from the 
MC. In other words, any midpoint picture which belongs to 
the MC does not automatically apply to the Node. 
 
The same holds true for the Asc and Jupiter (at 27Cap13 and 
4Aries44). They are not actually conjunct as far as midpoints 
are concerned. Again, even though they share one location 
marker, you cannot say the ASC = Jupiter nor MC = the 
Node, not in the sense of being able to assume that what is 
true of one is true of the other.
 
You can prove this for yourself by getting a 22-1/2 degree 
Midpoint Listing from the Reports option in the lower right side 
(same place where you got your midpoint trees. With the 
number of points and planets you're using, you will get a two-
page report. The first page is sorted by planets and mid-
points and tells you were in the 22-1/2 degree world they 
belong. It serves as an index for the second page, where find 
all the planets and midpoints sorted by their location from 0 to 
22-1/2. I use this report much more than the midpoint trees 
because you can immediately see which midpoints belong 
together (and thus can make 4-planet formulas). I won't take 
space here to explain all the beauties of it; let me know if you 
want to hear about it.
 
The numbering on this report corresponds to the numbers on 
the outer circle of your 22-1/2 degree chart, and in the scheme 
of things you would see that the MC is at 07/51 and the Node 
is at 19/15. All the mid-points which belong to each are listed 
immediately below and above them. In the case of your MC, 
using a 30min orb, you find 16 midpoints from 7/31 to 8/19, 
many of which you've mentioned. For the Node there are only 
7 midpoints from 18/49 to 19/37, many of which you wanted to 
give to the MC. In an 11-1/4 degree harmonic, the Node 
would be at 8/00 and most of these midpoints would apply to 
both the MC and the Node, but not in the 22-1/2 deg world.
 
All this explains why you could not find Moon/Jup nor 
Asc/Pos with the MC. They belong to the Node (in a 22-1/2 
degree world). The other midpoints listed for the Node (and 
not the MC) are Moon/Chiron 18/49, Hades/Kronos 19/00, 
Ven/Cup 19/08, (the Node 19/15), Asc/Pos 19/16, Moon/Jup 
19/20, Asc/Zeus 19/29, MC/Kronos 19/37. These are most of 
those which you had listed. 
 
With regard of the rest of the midpoints on your list, Pluto and 
Hades are not conjunct. However, planets standing next to 
each other which are conj, in oppos, square, semi-sq, sesqui-
sq generally share many of the same mid-points. So, in your 
chart, wherever Mars goes Uranus goes too and where your 
Sun participates in a mid-point, so does Vulkanus.
 
The calculations you mentioned which had some of the 
midpoints which Solar Fire showed as out of your orb, were 
not based on the correct premises. Again, I refer you to the 
22-1/2 deg Midpoint Listing.
 
Well, Ineke, I think that takes care of all your questions. To 
sum up, you were correct about all these midpoints belonging 
to your planets, just not the way you thought.<G>
 
That takes care of your chart, now for your questions about 
trees and some of the designations, I'll use your MC tree as 
an example. Sun/Nept -0 03' means that this midpoint is 3 
minutes from your MC and is approaching it; on the other 
hand, Merc/Nept +0 03' means that this midpoint is 3 min 
from your MC but is moving away. This sort if distinction 
makes more sense in a transit or progressed chart. With 
regard to Moon/Asc +0 13 d, this means that Moon/Asc is 
moving away from your MC and is now 13 minutes away and 
the 'd' means that it is a Direct Midpoint, which means that 
you it is true in your 360-degree chart and thus has greater 
importance than the others; it will appear in all your different 
harmonics.
 
One other thing, you didn't mention it because the Aries point 
does not appear in connection with your MC, but if you wish to 
have the Aries point shown on your various reports, you turn it 
on at the REPORT menu on the main Solar Fire page. Click 
on "Vernal Point On", unless there's already a check mark 
there.
 
Well, Ineke, I think that takes careof the subject. If you have 
any other questions or wish me to explain further what I've 
written, don't hesitate to let me know.
 
Happy Holidays to all,
Marion 
 
P.S. Ineke's birthdata is 17Dec51 at 8:03 a.m. Indonesia 
SSUT (-7) 107E38, 02S45, Asc 27Cap13, in case anyone 
wishes to follow along. Ineke referred only to the MC's 
midpoints and used a 22-1/2 degree chart.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
From: kpwilson@webtv.net (katheryn wilson)
Date sent: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:15:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Plastic Dials
 
Dear Group,
 
Here are some suggestions that I have found useful for using dials.
You might think about using the plastic dial for each chart you are 
currently working on. If you have a dial at the present time, take it to an 
Office Depot or any such supply house that can do copies. Have them 
make as many copies as you may need, on a plastic sheet. 
In the center make a small hole the size of a pin, place a garment 
snap in the hole, then affix the dial to your two paper charts. You are 
set to work daily or when ever 
 
K. Wilson
 
[ Moderator's comment: ]
One must be careful when using photocopied dials, as copiers are often 
not entirely accurate ! Be sure to check your copies with the original.... and 
if you printed your dial from a computer printer, then it may well be 
distorted. This distortion is difficult to see unless you compare it to a 
known accurate dial. Photocopiers must be periodically maintained and 
tested to see if the spatial distortion is at a minimum.
 
Having added worries like this, photocopies are sure better than nothing.... 
but no substitute for an accurate dial that can be purchased for a few 
dollars from Penny (or elsewhere - see the Uranian web site).
 
Steve
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
From: "Raylee" <rascorp@ezinet.com.au>
Subject: Re: %% Dinesh: Dial Help
Date sent: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:42:11 +1030
 
Dear Dinesh and Midpointers,
 
I am using hand made dial. I am taking a drawing card paper and fixing the
90 Deg dial on the card paper. I place a blank paper between the card
paper and the dial for noting down planetary positions. 
 
>So, my first question is, is the above method right or wrong? Any 
>suggestions / ideas on improving the above method? ....... 
 
The dial I used was one Steve provided with our lessons and I put a small 
square of cardboard under a drawing pin to stop the hole getting too big 
and then found an old diary with a very thick cover which I attached the dial 
to. The chart I was working on I put under the dial and this already had the 
planets on it which were not glyphs, but SU (Sun), MO (Moon) etc. I mark 
the placements in red and continue the mark outside of chart so I can see 
them. 
 
Because I don't know where you got your dial from and what it looks like it 
is a bit hard to advise you other than to tell you what I did. On further charts I 
was able to get a copy made in a plastic type of finish from a bought one 
someone had and found that by writing the planets in in pencil on the chart I 
was working on I could see them ok. Since then I have made copies of the 
working charts so I can use pen on them. 
 
>Now, how does one note down the planets? :) I mean, what kind of details 
>does one include. I am using a dash to indicate the degree position of the 
>planet and at the end place the glyph for the planet or trans-neptune. Now 
>the problem starts. Should I include degree and sign details or just leave it 
>for clarity ? Because if I do include, the charts gets jumbled up. If I don't I 
>am having problem as to how to know whether a particular planet is in 
>conjunction or square? 
 
You don't need to know if a planet is conjunction or square for interpreting 
the midpoints with a 90 degree dial. 
 
>Another practical problem with hand made dials. The tack hole is 
>sometimes big and hence the dial shifts are little, which can cause 
>degree position to change and this is a big problem if one is using an orb 
>of 1 degree. Any suggestions here? 
 
Because I don't have Dial Detective I can't help you on this next question. 
 
> I again apologize for asking such simple and basic questions.
>Thank you for all the help,
>Namaste,
>Dinesh
 
Please don't apologise for asking for help as I needed a lot of help when
I started and am still learning. Steve was very good and patient with his
help and if you haven't done his lessons I would strongly recommend that
you do if you can, because that is where I learnt what I have so far. 
Prior to the lessons it was all very foreign to me. I wish you luck in
your learning and encourage you to keep going. It took a while for things
to click with me and then I started to see what I was looking for. 
 
Raylee
 
[ Moderator's comment: ]
Dinesh, your questions are excellent. I am glad that you came forth and 
asked them. This is what this list is all about. Your questions show that you 
are actually trying to learn about midpoints and dial techniques. Unless this 
is done - physically DOING practical things like dial techniques - and 
unless one actually gets away from only skimming the content of our group 
posts...... then.... midpoints will remain a mystery. 
So, thanks again for asking these questions, and thanks to Raylee as well. 
I do agree with Raylee about not needing to apologise !
 
Steve
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Date sent: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:21:41 +0200
From: zivit <zivit@inter.net.il>
Subject: Re: %% Dinesh: Dial Help
 
Hi Dinesh
 
I can't answer all your questions, being newbie myself, but here is what I
do, to help me with dials and so on :
 
First, I don't work on blank paper - I use at least a circle, preferably one with 
360 degree marks, and an extended mark for every 4th degree - to make a 
90 degree wheel. This way I can work out the basic details before 
mounting the paper and dial on the card paper (Or whatever you use. I use 
a cork notice board). 
 
I made my blank chart using spreadsheet program with a ring chart option.
Will be glad to share it.
 
I printed the dial I use on a transparency. This way I can see the paper I
work on under the dial. Helps calibrating the hole. Also - a transparency
is harder to pierce - but the hole does not grow larger after some use.
Before mounting both dial and paper I make the sure I know where the
middle is - then I can stick a pin through both, keeping it in place. This
way the dial stays right even after quite a lot of turning.
 
I find that just entering the glyphs is not enough for me. The dial mark 
degrees by quarters. What if I want to look at 22.5 aspects (I try to keep 
these in 1/4 degree orb, as was suggested in another e-mail) ? So I enter 
the minutes over the glyph (I have the degree on the printed wheel). They 
are needed for the "heavy duty part - that of comparing midpoints and 
pictures to other points. I don't mind the aspect (conjunction, opposition, 
square) on the dial. The books do not make that distinction anyway, at 
least not the one I have seen. 
 
I don't know if the way I find midpoints on the wheel is the easiest one,
but here is what I do: I put the dial 0 point on one of the planets and
look at what degree the other falls. then I just move it for half that
size, so that both planets are on the same degree at both sides of the 0. 
When both are at the same distance from the 0 - the 0 points to the place
the midpoint is.
 
To work on a tree without marking the midpoints I just put the 0 on the
point to check, then I move my fingers around both sides at the same time,
noting when I have something on both sides. These will form a midpoint
that is equal to the "base" of the tree. This gives the 90 degree
midpoints. Then if you want smaller orbs, turn the dial 90 (regular)
degrees, or point the 22 30 point to the base of the tree, and do it again
from this point, to get the midpoints that make 22.5 aspects to the base
of the tree.
 
Please - if anything I wrote here is not right, I'd like to know - so
correct me too.
 
Thanks and happy dialling
--
Zivit Semo, Israel mailto:zivit@inter.net.il
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Dear Midpointers,
 
Once again I am offering free midpoint lessons :-))
 
Student numbers will be limited, so if you are interested, 
quickly surf over to: 
http://members.tripod.com/~junojuno2/lessons.htm
 
On these web pages you will find all necessary details about how to enrol 
for this course of study. BTW, if you cannot access the Net (and have only 
email) you will not be able to participate in these lessons.
Check it out: New 'Flashy' Main Page for Midpoints 101 - 
http://members.tripod.com/~junojuno2/
 
You will also see a new format on the index page, along with many new 
pages of material. There are a few missing links and other errors, but I 
should have these corrected within the next day.
 
Kind regards,
Steve
 
PS Feel free to post this notice on other astrology lists or send it to your 
astrology friends, BUT PLEASE DO NOT POST IT TO NEWSGROUPS 
OR OTHER PLACES ACCESSIBLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. 
Thanks - it is a hassle dealing with people who still read newspaper 
horoscopes and only know about sun-sign zodiacs.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Date sent: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:24:10 +0530 (IST)
From: Dinesh <drt@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in>
Subject: Re: %% Dinesh: Dial Help
 
[ Moderator's note: Dinesh is replying to Zivit, Raylee, Katheryn, and 
myself. Do you see what wonderful material you have initiated, Dinesh?! 
For anyone who hasn't yet used a dial, you do not know the fun that you are 
missing... and I do mean 'fun' in the positive sense ! - Steve ]
 
Hello Zivit,
 
<< I can't answer all your questions, being newbie myself, but here is
what I do, to help me with dials and so on : >>
I appreciate the advice you are giving me. It will definitely help me a
lot. Thank you.
 
<< First, I don't work on blank paper - I use at least a circle,
preferably one with 360 degree marks, and an extended mark for every 4th
degree - to make a 90 degree wheel. This way I can work out the basic
details before mounting the paper and dial on the card paper (Or whatever
you use. I use a cork notice board).
 
I printed the dial I use on a transparency. This way I can see the paper I
work on under the dial. Helps calibrating the hole. Also - a transparency
is harder to pierce - but the hole does not grow larger after some use.
Before mounting both dial and paper I make the sure I know where the
middle is - then I can stick a pin through both, keeping it in place. This
way the dial stays right even after quite a lot of turning. >>
 
That's a very nice idea! If I am understanding you correctly, you mean to 
mark it on a 360 Deg dial made of paper and overlay with a 90Deg dial 
made on a transparency sheet? How does one stop the 360Deg from 
moving when we move the 90Deg dial? 
 
<< I made my blank chart using spreadsheet program with a ring chart
option. Will be glad to share it. >>
 
I would very much appreciate that.
 
<< I find that just entering the glyphs is not enough for me. The dial
mark degrees by quarters. What if I want to look at 22.5 aspects (I try to
keep these in 1/4 degree orb, as was suggested in another e-mail) ? So I
enter the minutes over the glyph (I have the degree on the printed wheel).
They are needed for the "heavy duty part - that of comparing midpoints and
pictures to other points. I don't mind the aspect (conjunction,
opposition, square) on the dial. The books do not make that distinction
anyway, at least not the one I have seen. >>
 
That is a neat way of not cluttering and still getting all the information.
 
<< I don't know if the way I find midpoints on the wheel is the easiest
one, but here is what I do: I put the dial 0 point on one of the planets
and look at what degree the other falls. then I just move it for half that
size, so that both planets are on the same degree at both sides of the 0.
When both are at the same distance from the 0 - the 0 points to the place
the midpoint is. >>
 
I get your point. It makes sense now.
 
<< To work on a tree without marking the midpoints I just put the 0 on the
point to check, then I move my fingers around both sides at the same time,
noting when I have something on both sides. These will form a midpoint
that is equal to the "base" of the tree. This gives the 90 degree
midpoints. Then if you want smaller orbs, turn the dial 90 (regular)
degrees, or point the 22 30 point to the base of the tree, and do it again
from this point, to get the midpoints that make 22.5 aspects to the base
of the tree. >>
 
Can you please elaborate a bit here? I am again confused.
 
---------------------------------
 
Hello Katheryn,
 
<< Here are some suggestions that I have found useful for using dials. >>
 
Thank you very much.
 
<< You might think about using the plastic dial for each chart you are
currently working on. If you have a dial at the present time, take it
to an Office Depot or any such supply house that can do copies. Have
them make as many copies as you may need, on a plastic sheet. >>
In the center make a small hole the size of a pin, place a
garment snap in the hole, then affix the dial to your two paper
charts. You are set to work daily or when ever >>
 
That is a very nice suggestion. It will definitely help, especially in
cases where one is referring to a chart a lot. For example, in case of a
chart of a country for Mundane astrology. It will also reduce the wear and
tear of the dial and one will not waste the time adjusting the dial again
and again.
 
<< [ Moderator's comment: ]
One must be careful when using photocopied dials, as copiers are often
not entirely accurate ! Be sure to check your copies with the original
... and if you printed your dial from a computer printer, then it may well
be distorted. This distortion is difficult to see unless you compare it
to a known accurate dial. Photocopiers must be periodically maintained
and tested to see if the spatial distortion is at a minimum.
 
Having added worries like this, photocopies are sure better than
nothing.... but no substitute for an accurate dial that can be purchased
for a few dollars from Penny (or elsewhere - see the Uranian web site). >>
 
Thanks for the advice for avoiding this trap. I have noticed that the
people who do copies, generally have a habit of reducing the size of the
output so that they can be sure that the border or any other information
is not missing so that they will not have to take out second print.
I hope to soon go in for a accurate dial as you suggest.
 
---------------------------------
 
Hello Raylee,
 
<< The dial I used was one Steve provided with our lessons and I put a
small square of cardboard under a drawing pin to stop the hole getting too
big and then found an old diary with a very thick cover which I attached
the dial to. The chart I was working on I put under the dial and this
already had the planets on it which were not glyphs, but SU (Sun), MO
(Moon) etc. I mark the placements in red and continue the mark outside of
chart so I can see them. 
 
Because I don't know where you got your dial from and what it looks like
it is a bit hard to advise you other than to tell you what I did. On
further charts I was able to get a copy made in a plastic type of finish
from a bought one someone had and found that by writing the planets in in
pencil on the chart I was working on I could see them ok. Since then I
have made copies of the working charts so I can use pen on them. >>
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I am using a photocopy of the Dial given
on Page 73 of Dial Detective. According to the book, it is similar to the
one provided by ACS.
 
<< You don't need to know if a planet is conjunction or square for
interpreting the midpoints with a 90 degree dial. >>
Will knowing the kind of aspect relationship existing in the picture
not help in judging the quantity and quality of the result from the
picture?
 
<< Please don't apologise for asking for help as I needed a lot of help
when I started and am still learning. Steve was very good and patient
with his help and if you haven't done his lessons I would strongly
recommend that you do if you can, because that is where I learnt what I
have so far. Prior to the lessons it was all very foreign to me. I wish
you luck in your learning and encourage you to keep going. It took a
while for things to click with me and then I started to see what I was
looking for. >>
 
Thank you very much for you kind and encouraging words.
 
<< [ Moderator's comment: ]
Dinesh, your questions are excellent. I am glad that you came forth and
asked them. This is what this list is all about. Your questions show
that you are actually trying to learn about midpoints and dial techniques.
Unless this is done - physically DOING practical things like dial
techniques - and unless one actually gets away from only skimming the
content of our group posts...... then.... midpoints will remain a mystery.
So, thanks again for asking these questions, and thanks to Raylee as
well. I do agree with Raylee about not needing to apologise ! >>
This group is great and very helpful. I am also thankful to you
for being so kind, understanding and helpful.
 
 
Thank you Zivit, Raylee and Katheryn for answering my call for help.
 
I very much appreciate it.
 
Namaste,
Dinesh.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
From: "Mariano" <mmaciel@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Dial Help
Date sent: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:04:28 -0200
 
Dear Steve and all Midpointers:
 
While I was reading the letters related to the use of dials suddenly came
to my mind the idea that perhaps some of you have software programs that
can turn more easy your work and you dont know how to use them.
So I decided to write this lines for explaining how I work on dials - of
course after all the cares and guidance gave by Steve in his continuous
marvelous teachings -, choosing for now the "Winstar" of "Matrix".
Its very easy: after asking for a natal chart like on the classic style I
ask for the 90 dial chart, choosing the button on the left called "Add"
that appears under the "Chart Form" window. Then, on the middle of the
screen on "Printer Wheel" window I choose "Dial 90" and I press "O.K.".
And thats all...
 
Or not all... You can add to your analysis the midpoint lists (for 360, 90,
45, 22,5 dial). I use to print a 90 and 22.5 mp lists. For that step you must 
press the "Dataview" window and then choose "Midpoints: 360 dial, etc.). 
On the same window you can choose "Midpoints Tree: 90, etc.. 
Pennys 90 dial fits perfect with the Winstar 90 dial chart... and then.
..
Then comes the great funny !!! :-)
Mariano
mmaciel@fibertel.com.ar
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Dear Group,
 
There are now a number of new pages on the 101 web site. Here are just a 
few of the new items, listed below. If you would like to see the most recent 
additions, look for the blue spherical buttons. When I add new material to 
the web site, I use a different colour of button (that you click on).
BTW, there are still a few missing links and minor errors, but 95 % of the 
material is OK. It will take some time to sort out.
The URL of the 101 web site is below, as it always is...
 
Happy surfing,
Steven Lee
Moderator
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
Errors in the Book: "HANDBOOK OF TECHNIQUES" 
Missing Manifestations - When Actual Events and Predictive Techniques 
do not Match 
Tired of getting that "Error 404" message when a URL (web site address) 
does not work ? 
A report about Hackers and computer security - which you may want to 
send to your Internet provider, just to shake them up. 
Your Mission in Life 
Subway Reading Enjoyment ! 
 
Cupido, by E. Nauman 
(includes images and nice formatting, thanks to Michael Rideout)
One of the Most Important Items of Uranian Astrology 
 
Hypothetical Planets: "Why Waste Time Dealing With Things That Don't 
Exist ?" "As an experienced astrologer, I dismissed Uranian techniques 
years ago since it is all based on imaginary planets." 
 
A natal interpretation of the Buddha's chart 
A natal interpretation of Herman Hesse 
The "Good - Bad / Jupiter - Saturn" debate 
The stockmarket
... and lots more !
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Moderator's note: ]
 
Here are three posts about Harmonic Meanings, from the Uranian list. If 
you are not familiar with Harmonics, then suffice it to say that John Addey 
pioneered the research into this numerologically-related field, and that 
harmonics are closely linked with aspects. 
 
That is, a septile >> 7th harmonic >> 51.42 degrees = 360 divided by 7. 
If you wanted to see your own chart in the 7th harmonic, you would either 
multiply each of your 360 natal placements (planets, points) by 7, then 
convert it back to 360... or better yet... just use Solar Fire or the like and 
click on the Harmonic Chart button !
 
You may wonder "Why bother with harmonic charts ?" John Hamblin's 
book on Harmonics shows many natal and event harmonic charts that are 
striking, in fact "astounding" would be a better word. One that I remember 
is the discovery of the DNA sequence by Watson (or perhaps Crick): even 
a non-astrologer would look at this chart and be amazed by the wonderful 
geometric patterns.
 
As Ed states below: "Harmonic charts amplify the information that is 
depicted in the natal chart. They add information to interpretation only in 
the sense that they reveal the hidden - or occult - qualities of the first 
harmonic." 
 
If anyone could create an example of a harmonic chart for the web site, this 
would compliment the following posts nicely.
 
Kind regards,
Steve
 
 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
From: "Edward Gillam" 
ed_astro_mail@asteria.freeserve.co.uk
Harmonic Meanings 
Date sent: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:16:55 -0000
 
Dear Penny, Steve and Uranians,
 
Here's the material that I promised Penny. Hope that it's of general
interest too. Feedback welcome !
 
HARMONIC MEANINGS
The important thing to remember with harmonic charts is that there are
four signatures: the second, third, fifth and seventh. These are the
first four prime numbers after one. The fundamental first harmonic is
represented by the natal chart.
 
Harmonic charts amplify the information that is depicted in the natal
chart. They add information to interpretation only in the sense that they
reveal the hidden - or occult - qualities of the first harmonic.
 
I think of these four signatures in terms of two polarities: the second
and third harmonics, and the fifth and seventh harmonics. To represent
this graphically you might like to think of a cross with one axis
comprised of 2 and 3 at each pole, and at right angles to this axis,
another axis with 5 and 7 at each pole.
 
Other harmonics, such as 6, 12, 10 and 14, represent the blending of the
essential principles represented by the prime harmonics. (I am not sure
what to make of harmonics formed from prime numbers such as 11 and 17.)
 
ESSENTIAL PRINCIPLES
 
I work with the following essential principles:
2 represents matter
3 represents spirit
5 represents order (cosmos)
7 represents disorder (chaos)
 
These are the broadest descriptions of the essential principles of the
harmonic primes. Incarnation in this world is characterised by a balance
between these four essential principles. I find this an interesting
thought; frequently incarnation is only thought of as a material problem,
or at best it is seen as a creating a balance between material and
spiritual life.
 
My feeling is that harmonic chart work actually shows us that incarnation
has this other dimension - cosmos/chaos. This axis tends to be forgotten.
As astrologers we are just as negligent as the rest of society: we tend to
forget quintile and septile aspects in most of our work!
 
These metaphysical principles are described in many systems of occult
thought. (It is interesting to speculate on whether they are genuinely
trans-cultural, or whether they are fundamentally
Judeo-Christian/Greco-Roman/Western artefacts.)
 
AMPLIFYING THE ESSENTIAL PRINCIPLES: Two and Three
 
Two: yang, outer, manifest, material, hard, active, immanent,
masculine.....
 
Three: yin, receptive, inner, transcendent, feminine, soft, passive....
I am sure that group members don't need to be reminded that these poles
represent extremes, and in no way compartmentalise men and women! The
polarities I have described represent a conceptual framework for
understanding reality and human experience. Here we have the old
commonplace: it is a mistake to assume that the map, or framework, is the
reality.
 
AMPLIFYING THE ESSENTIAL PRINCIPLES: Five and Seven
 
Working with 5 and 7 gets more difficult. I think this is because the 
language is not sufficiently well developed to give a clear description. John 
Addey, Charles Harvey, Michael Harding and David Hamblin have had a go. 
It's worth checking out their work. 
 
Five: Appollonian, social, conservative, balanced, harmonious, inclusive,
ego, stability, static, constructive, conforming...
 
Seven: Dionysian, anti-social, radical, unbalanced, disharmonious,
exclusive, id, instability, ecstatic, destructive, rebellious...
Nietzsche has very interesting things to say about this polarity in The
Birth of Tragedy. I think he is one of the only modern thinkers to really
identify this polarity in human experience. My feeling is that
Nietzsche's ideas in this area profoundly influenced Freud.
The mistake here is to think of '5 - good' and '7 - bad', just as it is a
mistake to think 'spirit - good', 'matter - corrupt'. These polarities
find their expression in human experience; our role as astrologers is to
find the positive, creative or adaptive expression of the principles and
encourage our clients to work with them.
 
This interpretation of 7 is one that is only hinted at in the literature.
David Hamblin gets closest but still hangs on to the 'traditional'
interpretation of 7 as 'inspiration' or 'imagination'. "...I shall propose
that Seven is in fact a number of man: a number not of man's rational and
constructive abilities, but of his wild, fertile and unpredictable
imagination....It is a number of man's highest flights of creative
imagination, and of his lowest depths of destructive illusion." (David
Hamblin, Harmonic Charts, p. 65)
 
My feeling is that all the harmonic primes are forms of inspiration or
imagination (or illusion of that matter). It is the quality of the
inspiration/imagination that is described by the harmonic charts. Hamblin
does make it clear that he feels that there is no divine association with
7. This is the trap that Charles Harvey and John Addey fall into.
 
I tend to agree with David Hamblin's thoughts on this. My feeling on this
point is that all harmonic primes, including one, are manifestations of
the divine, and none is particularly associated with God/Source. 'God is
in all things, and all things belong to God.'
 
I feel that this interpretation of 7 does fit nicely with the fact that the septile 
aspect cannot be reduced to a lowest common denominator which 
incorporates the other harmonic factors. 7 is truly outside the realm of 2, 3 
and 5. (For example, the trine - 3 - can be described as 90 + 30 = 120 or one and
third squares! The quintile is 90 - 18 = 72 or four-fifths of a square.
The septile just does not fit the jigsaw. It cannot be reduced to any of
the common multiples - which all come down to whole number factors
involving 2, 3 or 5 - which make up the other aspects.)
 
INTERPRETATION OF HARMONIC CHARTS
 
I generally work only with close hard aspects in the harmonic charts. This
focuses me on the manifesting quality of the chart since hard aspects
represent the principle of 2. A good tip, if you are struggling with the
interpretation of a harmonic prime, is to look at the prime x 2. So, if
you can't get to grips with a seventh harmonic chart, look at its
expression in the fourteenth harmonic. This is the astrological
representation of the manifestation of 7.
 
Here are some ideas:
Fifth harmonic: the principle of order.
Squares in the fifth: challenges or obstructions in the manifestation of
order, spur to the manifestation of order.
Second harmonic: material circumstances
Trines in the second: the spiritual significance of these circumstances,
path of wealth creation?!
Seventh harmonic: the principle of disorder
Squares in the seventh: sources of profound psychological resistance or
challenge, destructive elements or impulses within the personality
 
I must stress that these are very broad principles. The meaning of
individual harmonic charts is only really determined in relation to the
natal chart, and the individual's expression of the principles and symbols
described in the chart.
 
CONCLUSION
 
There are profound relationships between the second, third and fifth
harmonics. I tend to see these as colluding elements within the
horoscope. They stand together, or fall together. Again, the strength of
the relationship depends on the individual horoscope. However, I think,
in general, we act to preserve the integrity of these three at the expense
of the seventh.
 
Think of these three as an equilateral triangle; they form a stable
relationship with each other: matter, spirit and order. Seven, from an
astrological point of view, represents a 'loose cannon' or 'wild card'
that threatens to undermine this 'acceptable triumvirate'. The principle
of seven is not easily integrated.
 
Or to return to the earlier model - think of the 2-3 axis representing the
threshold of consciousness, imagine 5 - order - above this threshold at
right angles to the pole. 7 is then represented at the opposite end of
this pole, below the threshold. The principle of 7 would then be a
representation of the unacceptable, but ultimately undeniable, contents of
the unconscious, a la Freud's conception of the 'id'.
 
OK. I'm really speculating now! Time to go.
 
Best wishes to you all
Ed
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
From: "John Sutton" <johnsutton@netcom.co.uk>
Date sent: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:42:00 +0000
Subject: Re: ## Ed: re: Penny: Harmonic Meanings
 
Ed wrote some about Harmonic meanings, and invited feedback. 
Thanks, Ed, for the thought-provoking post. 
 
> I work with the following essential principles:
> 2 represents matter
> 3 represents spirit
> 5 represents order (cosmos)
> 7 represents disorder (chaos)
[snip] 
> AMPLIFYING THE ESSENTIAL PRINCIPLES
> Two: yang, outer, manifest, material, hard, active, immanent,
> masculine.....
> Three: yin, receptive, inner, transcendent, feminine, soft, passive....
 
I don't know how well this relates to the use of Harmonics 
in astrology, but I think of two and three the other way around. For me,
MATTER (the word is etymologically linked, I believe, to "mater" and
mother) is that which embodies spirit by recieving and holding it,
providing a vessel, shape, form for it. This is feminine don't you think?
 
If I remember rightly, the Pythagoreans and earlier schools of
thought from the Middle East and India saw the number two as the
first "female" number, and three as the first "male" number. 
 
> Five: Appollonian, social, conservative, balanced, harmonious,
> inclusive, ego, stability, static, constructive, conforming...
 
In ancient times Five was seen as, amongst other things, the 
coming together of two and three, hence marriage. That seems to fit with
your "balanced, harmonious, inclusive". 
 
Five is also closely connected with the Golden Section, as 
can be seen by the great number of Golden Section proportions which 
result from drawing a pentacle in a circle, and from the fact that 
Five is part of the mathematical formula that yields the Golden 
Section: the square root of five, plus one, all divided by two. 
 
So, it seems to me that whatever we understand about the Golden 
Section needs to be incorporated into our view of the 5th Harmonic. 
Something to do with qualitative leaps? Evolutionary possibilities (the
Golden Section seems to be integral to the evolution of life on Earth)? 
 
If Five is the coming together of two and three, male and 
female, I'm not sure you can call it "static" because this is a very
productive union, and one which brings forth new life of a sort which, at
least genetically speaking, has never existed before.
 
"Stability"....Theodor Landshcheidt has been arguing that the Golden
Section ratios which abound in the structure of the solar system are
essential for the solar system not to lose it's shape and order. He says
that in Physics the Golden Section represents the principle of stability,
counterbalancing the principle of disorder. However, this "stability"
doesn't seem to be a "static" thing, according to his work. He shows that
many natural and economic phenomena occur in cycles which peak in line
with Golden Section points within the cycles. For example, the most
powerful hurricanes, which we don't equate with "stability", "balanced", 
"harmonious", "static", or "constructive". On the theme of
"constructive", too, has it not been shown that some very *destructive*
people have had stacks of quintiles in their charts? 
 
For me, the nature of Five is as strong, as subtle and as beautiful 
as the Golden Section itself, and as exciting.... there's something very
"on the edge", or "point of departure" about it.
 
I believe it has been argued that Five, in human terms, has a 
lot to do with the creative or destructive power of consciousness, or
consciousness applied in a powerful, masterful way. 
 
> Seven... Dionysian, anti-social, radical, unbalanced,
> disharmonious, exclusive, id, instability, ecstatic, destructive,
> rebellious...
 
Nothing to offer on this one, but was interested in what you said. 
 
John
>-)O(-< 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
From: "Edward Gillam" 
ed_astro_mail@asteria.freeserve.co.uk
Subject: Re: ## Numerological Symbolism and Harmonic Meanings
Date sent: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:45:04 -0000
 
Hi John, Steve and Fellow Uranians
 
Thanks for your reply to my posting on harmonic meanings. My
understanding is that although there is a Pythagorean/numerological bent
to John Addey's original work on harmonics, numerological significance has
tended to take a back seat since then.
 
I take your point on 2 and 3. I think you're absolutely right, 
numerologically, to assign matter to 3. This fits much better with the 
traditional numerological symbolism. The etymology of the word also points 
in this direction as you suggest. 
 
So, as you say, spirit (2) infuses matter (3) and gives it life or
animates it: this is the Greek idea that breath or 'pneuma' (spirit) is
the essential life giving force. Conversely, matter (3) is the
substantial expression of spirit (2).
 
Certainly, in the I Ching, the first hexagram is to do with
'masculine/spiritual' expression, which is symbolised by the doubling of
the trigram for Heaven; the second hexagram is to do with
'feminine/natural' expression which is symbolised by doubling the trigram
for Earth.
 
As Richard Wilhelm says, the Receptive (hex. 2) '...is the perfect
complement of the Creative (hex. 1)...for the Receptive does not combat
the Creative but completes it. It (hex. 2) represents nature in contrast
to spirit, earth in contrast to heaven, space as against time, the
female-maternal as against male-paternal.' (R Wilhelm, I Ching or Book of
Changes, tr. by C F Baynes, London, Penguin Arkana, 1989, p 10)
This leaves us with a paradox - although 3 is numerologically linked with
matter, from a harmonic point of view 3 is associated with idealism and
immateriality. Hamblin and others do not really pick this contradiction
up.
 
Certainly Harvey and Harding, in Working with Astrology, connect 9 (3 x 3)
with idealism. Hamblin associates 9 with pleasure, joy, happiness and
peace. Although these qualities have their material expressions, they are
certainly not material qualities (like hard, rough, smooth etc.). He also
describes 9 as related to 'knowledge and understanding and truth'. Again,
there is no way, in my mind at least, that these 'products of threeness'
can be said to relate to the material/natural/feminine described above.
Again, in Harding and Harvey's Working with Astrology, 2 is clearly linked
with manifestation.
 
"The concrete, manifest qualities of this series of aspects is evident when it 
comes to interpreting a chart, for most astrologers (especially Uranians and 
Cosmobiologists! - my observation) will be much more confident in 
describing 'what it's like' to have for example SO-90-MA than SO-120-MA. 
The ideas associated with the square are so much more tangible, clear cut, 
and visible to Western perceptions.' (Harvey and Harding, Working with 
Astrology, p. 286) 
 
They do go on to say that the symbols described in the 2 series
'...represent those ideas within us which are demanding to be made
manifest, to be actualised, through an effort of the will.' (ibid..) This
seems to suggest that there is an idealistic foundation to the concept of
manifestation that they so closely identify with 2.
 
These first principles of astrology certainly give us some food for
thought!
 
Would this be fair to say: the 2 series charts describe the
spiritual/ideal foundation of material/manifest reality, and the 3 series
charts describe the material or manifest qualities of spiritual reality?
What is certainly true is that harmonics 2 and 3 are profoundly linked
which, I guess, is another way of saying that 'spirit' and 'matter' etc.
are really just two sides of the same coin.
 
Perhaps you could offer your thoughts on these ideas; it will
certainly help me to clarify my own thoughts on these very profound
principles. Perhaps the exchange will help clarify things for others.
What this is suggesting to me is that spiritual understanding can lead to
a fresh apprehension of material reality; and that profound connection
with material reality can inform spiritual understanding.
 
I feel that these conceptions of matter and spirit are useful constructions for 
helping us to think about human experience. As Richard Wilhelm says, the 
Creative and the Receptive are not enemies but necessary complements to 
each other. Astrology also shows us the two concepts are fundamentally 
linked and related, and perhaps, from some perspectives, even blurred. 
There is some evidence for this relationship between 2 and 3 if you look
at the semi-sextile (in the first harmonic). The aspect throws up a square
in the third harmonic and a sextile in the second harmonic. This suggests
to me that there is some analogous relationship between the two harmonics
series.
 
The semi-sextile represents the division of the circle by 12; a square (2
x 2 = 4) in the 3rd harmonic seems to be somehow fundamentally related to
a sextile (2 x 3 = 6) in the 2nd harmonic. (3 x 4 = 12 = 2 x 6)
 
From a wider perspective, the combination of 2 and 3, most commonly 
seen in astrology's interest in 12-fold manifestations (zodiac, houses, major 
aspects), might represent the symbolisation of lived experience, this blend 
of inner and outer, yin and yang, active and receptive etc.. Perhaps the 6th 
and 12th harmonic charts represent our struggle for balance between inner 
and outer experience, between material and and spiritual experience. 
Being incarnate we have to strike some sort of balance between the two 
modes of existence. 
 
I'll leave further thoughts on 5 and 7 for another posting. Essentially
I've drawn my ideas for 5 from Hamblin's book. I realise my
interpretation of 7 is idiosyncratic. However, the cosmos (order)/chaos
(disorder) polarity is so woven into our thinking that it seems a
suggestive way to go with developing ideas around 5 and 7.
 
Perhaps you could also offer some further insight into the addition of
primes - eg 2 + 3 = 5 - compared with the multiplication of primes (as
described above). I've never really got to grips with this.
Thanks again John. Your feedback was very helpful and thought provoking.
 
Best wishes to everyone.
Ed
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
From: "Vania Bueno Norberto" vanian@openlink.com.br
Subject: En: %% The 90 Dial - Martha Wescott -- doubts
Date sent: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:23:19 -0200
 
Hi Steve,
 
Well, as I'm a very good student, I decided to re-read all the post to
the list and I'm reading those posted in October, so maybe one day i'll
keep up with the list.
 
But, let's forget it for a while and go straight to the point. In this
excellent post "The 90 Dial by Martha Wescot" she explains the 45 dial and
says:
 
" On the 45 the conj., opp, 45, and 135 degree aspects become
conjunctions. The 90 degree quad points become the opposition points on
the 45, and half of the 90 degree quad ( 22.30 / 2 =3D 11.15 ) becomes the
new quad points. So 11.15 Cardinal is a quad for 0 Cardinal. "
 
What is a QUAD?
 
The rest I understood perfectly ( I hope). :))))
A wanderful Christmas for you and your familly.
 
Vania
Data: Terafeira, 20 de Outubro de 1998 15:44
Assunto: %% The 90 Dial - Martha Wescott
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
For the person who wanted to know about dial techniques,
this is what I have (various people sent these to me when I was asking)
but you'd have to consult others on this list to verify the accuracy: 
Basics on how to set up and use a 90 degree dial 
 
****** The first 30 degrees of the dial are the cardinal positions. Place all
the cardinal planets and points from 0 to 30 of any cardinal sign, in order in this
segment. THe second 30 degree segment, from 30-60 degrees on the dial
is where all the fixed planets go, from 0-30 of fixed signs, in order. 
The third segement of the dial, 60-90, is the mutable segment. Place all
mutuable planets point here, in degree order. Place your dial arrow on
the midpoint of two planets Check the points on the 'cross' formed by
intersecting bars with arrows on the dial center.... 22 1/2, 45, 67 1/2
degrees on the dial. If there is a planet/point in these placements the
energies of the midpoint dance with th e planetary energies. 
 
The 45 degree dial has 45 degrees or points. 
**************** The first point at the topmost axis of the circle is 
0 degrees Cardinal and 15 degrees fixed. The point just preceding 
(counter-clockwise) it is 29 degrees mutable and 14 fixed. So each 
point exactly represents two points and is assigned these points in ORDER.
Thus you could graph it on a straight line that shows that any point has two 
points, for instance, 0 Cardinal/15 fixed or the 0th degree of the dial and so 
on till you come full circle and complete all forty-five degrees. So: 0 of the 45
degree dial=30D Cardinal/15 fixed. So 0 aries, libra, cancer, capricorn,
and 15 taurus, leo, scorpio, and aquarius ALL go on the 0 point of the 45
degree dial. This means that any point has 8 possible sign degrees that
it can have assigned to it. The whole point is to show how easy it is
to visualize the whole thing and to be able to see it in your head---the
logic of it--without having to rely on the dial to show you in order to
get the point. (A helper is to look at the 90 and divide it in half). 
On the 45 the conj., opp, 45, and 135 degree aspects become
conjunctions. The 90 degree quad points become the opposition points on
the 45, and half of the 90 degree quad ( 22.30 / 2 =3D 11.15 ) becomes the
new quad points. So 11.15 Cardinal is a quad for 0 Cardinal. The opposion
points are gotten to by adding 22.30 to the initial point. All the math
is symmetrical so you can draw the same conclusion in different ways. In
other words, the first point gives a quad ( it's # substracted/added by
11.15) and it's opposition ( the # + 22.30) through simple
addition/subtraction. using a linear graph of equalities, figuring out
the placements become elementary. Dial Degree Zodiacal
Point Axis 0 ....
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Date sent: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:33:59 +0200
From: zivit zivit@inter.net.il
Subject: Re: %% Dinesh re: Dial Help
 
Hello Dinesh and midpointers
 
I answer to the group, since I feel I may have explained myself wrong on
some points, and also - about my offer to share the "wheel" I use with
you.
 
I said :
<< First, I don't work on blank paper - I use at least a circle,
preferably one with 360 degree marks, and an extended mark for every 4th
degree - to make a 90 degree wheel. This way I can work out the basic
details before mounting the paper and dial on the card paper (Or whatever
you use. I use a cork notice board).
(snip)
 
Dinesh said :
That's a very nice idea! If I am understanding you correctly, you mean to
mark it on a 360 Deg dial made of paper and overlay with a 90Deg dial made
on a transparency sheet? How does one stop the 360Deg from moving when we
move the 90Deg dial? >>
 
Well, not exactly. I use the wheel as a 90 dial, and the "extra" 3 marks
in each degree of the 90 are a way to put them in a more accurate place.
 
<< I made my blank chart using spreadsheet program with a ring chart
option. Will be glad to share it. >>
 
I would very much appreciate that.
 
I would love to send any of you a JPG (or another format you can use, as
long as paint shop pro has it), in the size that would fit your dial, if
you tell me the size of it (radius or diameter). I will not send this to
the group so as not to waste bandwidth, but Steve, I can send one to put
on the site if people want to use it (and fit it to be a fraction bigger
then the dial you have on the site already).
 
[[ Thanks, Zivit. Please send it and I will put it on site. - Steve ]]
 
I said :
 
<< To work on a tree without marking the midpoints I just put the 0 on the
point to check, then I move my fingers around both sides at the same time,
noting when I have something on both sides. These will form a midpoint
that is equal to the "base" of the tree. This gives the 90 degree
midpoints. Then if you want smaller orbs, turn the dial 90 (regular)
degrees, or point the 22 30 point to the base of the tree, and do it again
from this point, to get the midpoints that make 22.5 aspects to the base
of the tree. >>
 
Dinesh said :
 
Can you please elaborate a bit here? I am again confused.
>>
I don't know which part you'd like me to elaborate, but here is an example
: Caution - I work with decimal fractions
My Sun is at the 34.86 degree on the 90 dial. My Uranus is at the 28.58,
My Mars at 41.09.
I put the 0 point on the sun, move my fingers about 6 degrees left and
find Uranus, about 6 degrees right from the Sun I find Mars. That means
Su=Ma/Ur in my chart. I can go like this the whole 45 degrees on either
side of the 0 pointed at my Sun and see what make a midpoint there.
Then I look where the 22.5 arrow falls, mark a point with a pencil, and
move the 0 to that mark, then do the whole finger thing once again from
that point. This time I may need those extra decimals I put on top, since
I aim for smaller orb. So, when I find two points near-by, I can see, if
they fall at the same degree from this point, if the mean of the decimal
is close enough to the decimal of the Sun (or another point I am working
with).
 
One other thing I do when I look at directions : Since we utilize solar
arc direction, all points will move the same amount the Sun moved from
birth to the day that represents the year, so instead of mounting the
directed points on the chart, I dial the directed point to check forward
the amount the Sun moved, and look how the directed point compares to the
natal position, then I dial it *backards* the same amount - and now
everything else is directed and I can compare the "natal" point to
"directed" ones. This one is quite neat way to check one point at a time,
which is what you may want to do with a specific question.
 
I hope this last part is not too confusing and correct. I think it is
mathematically, which is why I tried it. I'd appreciate comments if I am
wrong.
 
Again - my offer for a template for a wheel stands - anyone with a PC (or
a Mac that can read one of the formats I can turn this into), is welcome
to write to me and I'll be happy to help.
--
 
Zivit Semo, Israel mailto:zivit@inter.net.il
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
From: barlea@netvision.net.il
Date sent: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:06:08 +0200 (IST)
Subject: ## - New Moon, Dec-18-1998
 
[ Moderator's note: This post from Lea obviously relates to the 
impeachment of President Clinton.... and possibly other world events as 
well. As Lea puts it: "...talk publicly about their impotence to carry on or of 
the lies of a great powerful politician that cause a mighty sensation in 
public." - Steve ] 
 
Hi,
 
The latest New Moon placed at 18-Dec-1998, 10:42pm GMT at 26Sag48.
Casting the New-Moon chart for Washington DC we find Jupiter on the MC 
and Venus on the Desc. 
 
On the 16th harmonic chart the following clusters are formed:
SU=MO(op. NE)=KR=VU=ME=AP
"Days and times which brings great events for many. The politician(s),
statemen, high government, authorities (who have power over many) talk
publicly about their impotence to carry on or of the lies of a great
powerful politician that cause a mighty sensation in public."
SA=ZE
"Obstacles and hindrances in activity. Fire losses in establishments.
Occurences without consequences."
ASC=NO=HA
"A mean act commited together. Connections started under difficulties or 
with reluctance. Unpleasant associations. Secret connections with others." 
JU=MC = MA=PO
"One's judgement of - Morality, Ethics, Moral behavior, Questions
concerning what is right or wrong."
______________
ARIES=AS/MC
=PL/HA Symptoms of deterioration and decadence. 
General decline. General breakdown
=PL/AS Uncertain situations. Transformation of/in the place.
=PL/NO Changes in connections.
=MC/HA Have secrets, Grieve over the world's situation. 
Mental depression.
=MC/NO Associated with many.
=JU/HA Suddened disturbed or hidden happiness. General money
shortage. Inflation, swindles, general worries over economic conditions.
AD+VU-PL By fate-dictated development. 
Blows of fate which cause basic change, development.
(SU,MO)+SA-PL Disproportion. Retarded development. Hindered 
development.
SA+ZE-VE Ostacles in activities, caused by "love". 
VE+PL-NO Sexual love connections. 
UR+CU-MC Sudden/exciting event in group.
ME+(KR,VU)-UR Sudden/exciting Powerful Announcements by the 
government.
MC=
ME/ZE To obey a command. Dictator. To command, threaten.
ME/AP MAny talks.
ZE/AP Inductions orders of the armed forces.
AS/AD Other feel inferior and have to yeild. Others withdraw or retire. 
NO/AD Oppressive conncetions. Small exclusive circle.
JU/PL Fortunate change. Obsessive judgement. 
JU+SA-ZE Interruption of (pro)creative activity. Burning buildings. 
VE+NE-ZE Directed by hidden or secret feelings/sentiments. 
VE+PO-NE Uncertain worldwide concept. Religious revelling. 
VE+MA-NE The end of intimate relations. 
HA+PO-VE Rejection for ideological reasons. 
AS+PO-VE Prefering people who are religiously/morally inclined. 
JU+PO-MA Acts of Justice. 
NE+CU-JU Excessive dissonances in associations.
HA+KR-CU Mean deeds of a mob. Gang of criminals.
Evil meeting of heads of government.
ME+HA-UR Sudden/exciting mistaken , stupid, malicious, 
drastic way of action or secret debates.
AS+ME-UR Others get excited and talk excited. Involve in an
argument. 
MA+VU-(SU,MO) People performing acts of violence. 
ME+PO-(SU,MO) People possessed by an idea. 
MA+AP-(KR,VU) JU+VU-ME Optimistic
conversations. Great wishes and hopes. ME+JU-AP 
 
Lea
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
From the moderator:
 
Finally, the maps are now on the web site. Real beauties...
The maps, plus the above analysis, can be found at: 
http://members.tripod.com/~junojuno2/maps.htm
 
This is well worth a look ! The maps are colourful and easy to read. 
At this time there is not a link (button) on the 101 site to these maps.
 
Steve
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Date sent: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:02:35 -0500
From: pb pb@bert-a.com
Organization: Penelope Publications
Subject: Re: ## -Lea: New Moon, Dec-18-1998
 
[ Moderator's note: This is from the Uranian list. Penny states:
"The study of this chart is an excellent lesson for beginners because of the 
much publicized events in his life that are broadcast on a daily basis and 
can be checked in the horoscope." She uses the New Moon for as a 
predictive method, which is a Uranian technique. Lea's post is below, to 
which Penny is responding to. - Steve ]
 
Hello Lea and group,
 
As usual, your right on target. If I may add my two cents to the picture . . . 
since the place of the Moon Phase, in this case New Moon represents the 
subject for a particular period, there is a triggered axis in Clinton's natal 
chart that should be highlighted. 
 
Again New Moon equals transit Kronos (governments)
New Moon in the natal chart of Clinton equals
Natal (Saturn/Kronos =Pluto = Admetos natal) = transit Kronos
Meaning:
To retire from office through removal (fall) of the chief or overthrow of 
government. 
The natal Pluto = Admetos natal equal transit Kronos
 
MEANING:
In the life of nations great changes in the existing forms of government take 
place. In a personal horoscope, one lives through these changes and 
experiences a radical change in attitude toward the peoples in power . . . 
i.e. the President and Congress. To change the man in power. 
 
NOTE:
We speak of the power of double patterns. This occurs when transits copy 
the natal, directed or progressed horoscope. 
In this Moon Phase of December 18, 1998 we see among other patterns:
transit Sun=Moon = transit Kronos = transit (Mars/Saturn)
Clinton's natal shows this same pattern i.e.,
natal Mars/Saturn=Pluto = Admetos = Saturn/Kronos= New Moon axis.
These are very destructive pictures which, as pointed out on this site 
related to the September 20th New Moon, take place over, and over again 
as this same axis is triggered by Moon Phases from September through 
March 1999. The pattern Mars/Saturn indicates endings, separations, 
interruptions of work progress of one kind or another when triggered. 
On the earlier post Steve pointed out that personal points in Clinton's
chart were involved as well. The lesson we are taught is that personal
points indicate personal involvement. The fall and winter Moon Phases
repeatedly trigger transit Kronos (governments). Transit Kronos is also
moving thorough the midpoint of Clinton's Ascendant/Node, Meridian/Node,
Mars/Node, Neptune/Node. . . . Ascendant, Meridian, Node are all personal
points. We see that his troubles are related to the relationships he has
formed i.e., personal ties, professional ties, teamwork ties and behind
the scenes, secret ties.
 
As stated earlier on this site, Clinton's chart, whatever time you like to use 
is very afflicted. (this astrologer likes the 8:51 stated time on August, 
19,1946, Hope, Arkansas) 
 
The study of this chart is an excellent lesson for beginners because of the 
much publicized events in his life that are broadcast on a daily basis and 
can be checked in the horoscope. 
 
BY-THE-WAY, the final impeachment vote came through in Washington on 
December 19, 1998 at 14:10 or 2:10 P.M. 
 
Penny
 
Clintons
 
The Uranian Group wrote:
> ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
> From: barlea@netvision.net.il
> Date sent: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:06:08 +0200 (IST)
> Subject: ## - New Moon, Dec-18-1998
>
> [ Moderator's note: This post from Lea obviously relates to the
> impeachment of President Clinton.... and possbily other world events as
> well. As Lea puts it: "...talk publicly about their impotence to carry
> on or of the lies of a great powerful politician that cause a mighty
> sensation in public." - Steve ]
>
> Hi,
>
> The latest New Moon placed at 18-Dec-1998, 10:42pm GMT at 26Sag48.
>
> Casting the New-Moon chart for Washington DC we find Jupiter on the MC
> and Venus on the Desc.
>
> On the 16th harmonic chart the following clusters are formed:
>
> SU=MO(op. NE)=KR=VU=ME=AP
>
> "Days and times which brings great events for many. The politician(s),
> statemen, high government, authorities (who have power over many) talk
> publicly about their impotence to carry on or of the lies of a great
> powerful politician that cause a mighty sensation in public."
>
> SA=ZE
>
> "Obstacles and hindrances in activity. Fire losses in establishments.
> Occurences without consequences."
>
> ASC=NO=HA
>
> "A mean act commited together. Connections started under difficulties or
> with reluctance. Unpleasant associations. Secret connections with
> others."
>
>
> JU=MC = MA=PO
>
> "One's judgement of - Morality, Ethics, Moral behavior, Questions
> concerning what is right or wrong."
>
> ______________
>
> ARIES=AS/MC
>
> =PL/HA Symptoms of deterioration and decadence.
> General decline. General breakdown
>
> =PL/AS Uncertain situations. Transformation of/in the place.
>
> =PL/NO Changes in connections.
>
> =MC/HA Have secrets, Grieve over the world's situation.
> Mental depression.
>
> =MC/NO Associated with many.
>
> =JU/HA Suddened disturbed or hidden happiness. General money
> shortage. Inflation, swindles, general worries over economic
> conditions.
>
> AD+VU-PL By fate-dictated development.
> Blows of fate which cause basic change, development.
>
> (SU,MO)+SA-PL Disproportion. Retarded development. Hindered
> development.
>
> SA+ZE-VE Ostacles in activities, caused by "love".
>
> VE+PL-NO
> Sexual love connections.
>
> UR+CU-MC Sudden/exciting event in group.
>
> ME+(KR,VU)-UR Sudden/exciting Powerful Announcements by the
> government.
>
> MC=
> ME/ZE To obey a command. Dictator. To command, threaten.
>
> ME/AP MAny talks.
>
> ZE/AP Inductions orders of the armed forces.
>
> AS/AD Other feel inferior and have to yeild. Others withdraw or
> retire.
>
> NO/AD Oppressive conncetions. Small exclusive circle.
>
> JU/PL Fortunate change. Obsessive judgement.
>
> JU+SA-ZE
> Interruption of (pro)creative activity. Burning buildings.
>
> VE+NE-ZE
> Directed by hidden or secret feelings/sentiments.
>
> VE+PO-NE Uncertain
> worldwide concept. Religious revelling.
>
> VE+MA-NE The end of intimate
> relations.
>
> HA+PO-VE Rejection for ideological reasons.
>
> AS+PO-VE
> Prefering people who are religiously/morally inclined.
>
> JU+PO-MA
> Acts of Justice.
>
> NE+CU-JU Excessive dissonances in associations.
> HA+KR-CU Mean deeds of a mob. Gang of criminals.
> Evil meeting of heads of government.
>
> ME+HA-UR Sudden/exciting mistaken , stupid, malicious,
> drastic way of action or secret debates.
>
> AS+ME-UR Others get excited and talk excited. Involve in an
> argument.
>
> MA+VU-(SU,MO) People performing acts of violence.
>
> ME+PO-(SU,MO)
> People possessed by an idea.
>
> MA+AP-(KR,VU) JU+VU-ME Optimistic
> conversations. Great wishes and hopes. ME+JU-AP
>
> Lea
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Edward Gillam" 
ed_astro_mail@asteria.freeserve.co.uk
Subject: Re: Capricorn Ingress and August 1999 Eclipse
Date sent: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:58:34 -0000
 
[ Moderator's note: The four gif images of the astro-maps that accompany 
this post are on the 101 web site. The URL for this page of maps is listed 
below. This post is from the Uranian list. I have included it on the 101 list 
since we have little mail at this time, and since this may be a totally new 
experience for some of you... if the text below seems confusing, just click 
on the URL: web site address below and you will *see* what Ed is referring 
to. He related the maps to many world events in the news these days. - 
Steve ]
 
Hi Steve
 
I've been working on some ideas re. the Capricorn ingress on 22/12. I've
attached some image files (gif); I hope they are not too big to send.
I'll have to go away and digest John's recent post - that debate on
harmonic meanings has really got me thinking.
 
CAPRICORN INGRESS AND AUGUST 1999 ECLIPSE
I've got a couple of interesting a-geography charts to share. I have
included them as GIF files so that people can look at them. I don't fancy
my chances of being able to give an adequate description of them for
people who can't put them up using a-geog. software!
 
CAPRICORN SOLAR INGRESS (Maps 1 and 2)
The first one is the Capricorn solar ingress coming up on 22.12.98 at
01:56 GMT. In the light of Clinton's impeachment and the war in Baghdad I
thought I would try and get some further insight into the direction these
things will take.
 
Point 1: Pluto rises through southern Iraq, south-east of Baghdad (33 N
20, 44 E 30)
 
Point 2: Saturn MC crosses Moon DSC between Hope and Little Rock, 
Arkansas
(crossing point 93 W 24, 34 N 34 which is very close to the geographical
midpoint of these two places)
Therefore this SA(M)/MO(D) paran runs just north of Baghdad.
Other parans: NE(D)/AP(I) 33 N 35; NE(A)/AD(I) 32 N 32
These combinations have a heavy feel - descriptive of the sombre tone of
the last week.
 
Point 3: In the Ingress chart there is a key formation of NE/MO/UR. This
pattern rises over east Asia (tiger economies including China), sets over
the USA and sits on the IC through Europe.
 
In east Asia, Admetos sits on the IC through Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and
Indonesia and Saturn sits on the IC through eastern India. Through the
USA, Saturn culminates (see point 2). Through Europe Saturn sets.
 
This suggests that people in these three key economic areas are going to
be highly attuned to the UR/NE energy. The event of the coming year may
refer back to the events surrounding the UR/NE conjunction in the early
1990s. (The so-called 'New world order'?; 'triumph of capitalism' etc..)
Saturn's and Admetos' involvement suggests continuing economic fallout in
the major industrial powers - recession or stabilisation?
 
Check position of Mars on the angles in map 2. India may be an interesting
place to watch next year. It is framed by MA(M)/SA(I)/SO(A)/VE(A). India's
borders with Bangladesh and Pakistan are highlighted. MA(M) runs across
the India/Pakistan border. The United States has Mars on the IC west of
Saturn on the MC - the central Midwest picks up a lot of the energy at the
Ingress (so-called 'middle America').
 
ECLIPSE CHART (Maps 3 and 4)
 
The eclipse chart is interesting in relation to the ingress chart because 
Uranus and Neptune are occupying the same areas of the globe as they 
were at the time of the Ingress. So Uranus and Neptune are setting over 
the USA, on the IC over Europe and rising over east Asia. (Uranus is very 
close to its position at the ingress - UR(M) at ingress = 166 west; at 
eclipse = 169 west for example. Uranus is at 166 west at 10:57 GMT on 
the eclipse day 11/08/99. Uranus on the MC would occur once a day at 
this degree - it's just interesting that it is so close to the ingress degree on 
the eclipse day - within minutes of the actual eclipse formation.) 
 
The key thing is to look at the Grand Cross formation - this is the fixed
signs cross that is the chief feature of the eclipse - SO/MO OPP UR with
MA/SA at right angles. Admetos joins in on the MA/SA axis. It's very
interesting to see how the MA/SA opposition has formed up with the UR
position over this time. It's also worth bearing in mind that the SA/UR
square is going to be one of the key configurations during 1999.
 
The key areas to look at are southern central America - Panama, Costa
Rica, Nicaragua and Honduras (also western coast of Ecuador, Peru and
Colombia and north to Cuba through the Caribbean Sea); west Africa -
Nigeria, Cameroon, Niger and Chad; Asia - northern Sumatra, Malaysia,
Thailand, Myanmar. (Map 3)
 
All these areas have been in the news during the mid-late 1990s, including
1998: environmental issues, natural disasters, civil wars, political
instability, economic pressures. Perhaps the eclipse will bring these
areas into focus again. (Let's hope for constructive reasons.)
Also note that Uranus and Neptune are framed by Sun/Moon and Mercury in
the eclipse chart.
 
By the way, Uranus sets through Little Rock, but Jupiter is on the MC at
93 W 39, very near the longitude of Saturn in the ingress chart. (Oh,
just a little note, Hope, Arkansas, is at 93 W 36, 33 N 40 - a happy
ending for Clinton??!! See map 4)
 
Data - Capricorn Ingress: 22/12/98, 01:56 GMT
Eclipse: 11/08/99, 11:09 GMT (The American Ephemeris at Noon
gives 11:03:07)
 
Best wishes for the Solstice one and all,
Ed
 
[ Moderator: ]
The maps, plus the above analysis, can be found at: 
http://members.tripod.com/~junojuno2/maps.htm
 
This is well worth a look ! The maps are colourful and easy to read. 
At this time there is not a link (button) on the 101 site to these maps.
LATE NOTICE: For some reason, the images are not loading from the 
web site properly. If they do not work for you, try again later.... I am 
working on it... - Steve