How to Use Dials
Could someone give me a little info on the advantages of the 30 degree dial? I remember a comment by someone that they loved that dial, but they didn't go into any detail. I am a little confused about the statement made a few days ago about soft aspects to Neptune being worse than hard aspects.
I have Mars square Neppy by 3 degrees and I consider it to be a humdinger. I''m not nearly so concerned about the trine Neptune makes to my Sun/Merc, or the sextile to Pluto. Of course my Neptune is conj my Ascendent, and I consider that to be something of a cross to bear, tho I see strong Neptunes in the charts of a couple of Astrologers I know.
Last question or comment. Seems like the question of orbs remains open ended. How about on the 22.30 degree dial, my personal favorite of the moment? Can you go a whole degree or are you better off keeping it really tight, like 15 degrees. [ Moderator's note: she must mean 15 minutes.]
Also do you take into account other factors or rely solely on the orb? Like if you have say venus on the midpoint of mars/saturn by 1 1/2 degree , but that midpoint is only 3/4 away from another midpoint venus is more exact to? Does that affect the reading in terms of connection?
Sorry if this is confusing, you can blame my Neptune!
Suffice it to say I have more questions than answers
When Neptune is "good" it reduces barriers; it allows you to absorb atmosphere, subtle signals, see totalities. It's great for salespeople, public relations types, restauranteurs, show production, advertising and financial types. It can increase compassion.
When Neptune is "bad"; it poisons, confuses, obscures. Can make people confused and unreliable, subject to "poisoned" and alergic reactions, and turn compassion into martyrdom.
On the "soft" aspect, it all -- good and bad-- happens without your being aware. With Neptune, this is a double whammy. Neptune confuses and obscures and now is doing that very easily, almost transparently. With the hard aspects, it tends to blend into the other planet. At least the native has evidence something is going on.
Example: Clinton has a Mars Neptune conjunction rising. He has the negative effect of Neptune rising - anyone can project an image of their own making onto him just as they would a motion picture screen. Good flip-side effect, he can project an image that "cloaks" what he really is.
He also has the subtle manipulative qualities, the "chess-player" mentality of Mars/Neptune. Slick Willy -- but also able financial manipulator Willy.
I have lots of mars/neptune trine charts who have severe allergies; auto immune diseases, etc. I've also, though this is a subjective opinion, found that they can be so subtle that they're ineffective.
Example: I worked with a graphic designer who had a Mars/Saturn conjunction (very common in graphic design, I have it too) trine neptune. He loved to do things like contrast different black inks. Black on black. Whoopee! Try selling that to a client.
He's my example of Neptune in soft aspect. Artsy and subtle he is.
Clear, he's not.
360 degree dial
The 360 degree dial will display the total horoscope with the very necessary need to understand sign dynamics and clusters of planets in signs and elements and how the total chart appears. I really don't need to list these examples. But, to describe what I mean a few would be . . . :
1) Are all factors on one side of the chart?
Of course, each astrologer uses the houses for interpretation in their way as they have found to be the most reliable for their work.
90 degree dial
The 90 degree dial is the second dial from which one would realize the most information because on this dial we instantly see all squares, oppositions, conjunctions, 22.30, and factors at 45 and 135 on a cross axis from the arms of the 0 degree pointer.
While one observes the clusters in signs (without orbs used) on the 360 degree dial, one will observe the clusters closely linked around one axis within 3 to 5 degrees on the 90 degree dial.
For example people born late in 1938 will have Admetos, Hades, and Saturn in one cluster within 3, 4, or 5 degrees orb and they will also have Aries, Kronos, Zeus, Uranus and the Moon's Node in a cluster within 4 degrees. These are very important generational groupings and must be integrated into the personal chart as influential, even though there are wide orbs between the factors in each cluster.
The degrees are so magnified on the 22.30 dial that the above mentioned clusters do not appear in the same axis or even connected in any way to the exact degree and minute under observation. A factor found one degree away appears too far for consideration. When exact detail is desired, the 22.30 is incorporated into the analysis. Examples would be . . .
1) When is a solar arc or progressed contact exact?
I think the astrologer should first understand the whole picture, before
a focus on the detail is necessary. The midpoints on the 22.30 are also
not all the same as on the 90 degree dial. I hope I have clarified what
I meant Linda.
I think it was my post in which the 30 degree dial was mentioned. The advocates of this dial swear by it because the soft and hard aspects appear in one axis. However, the midpoints on this dial are very different than the midpoints on the dials using hard aspects. For myself, I have worked with all the dials and always come back to the 90 degree because it is magnified enough to see detail and not magnified so much that one misses other cosmic factors in the axis.
You are correct about the orbs on the 22.30 dial. This dial should only be used when the exact axis is under consideration. When using the 90 degree dial and including the 22.30 axis, a very small orb should be used. Usually it should be under 15 minutes (less than one third of a degree). However, as you have pointed out, when one factor interacts closely on one arm of the axis, but not on another arm of the axis under study, the orb will be wider.
Understand, we have a basic standard that we follow, but then in our actual analysis, we find variations that build on that standard. As you have indicated, because one factor is aligned closely at one point (possibly square, conjunct or opposite) and a factor at another arm aligned with one of these factors, then it too will be included although it is considered out of orb with the first factor.
I cannot address what was said about Neptune soft aspects. I certainly
do not agree with this statement from my own experience. On the other hand,
I rarely bother with soft aspects. This would disqualify my opinion as
In using TNP's (and asteroids) on the dial, I have found the 22.5 aspect to be entirely valid in the life of the person, at the very least on a psychological basis, even if the orb is more than 15 minutes of arc. In fact, orbs of up to 1 degree have worked very very well in the charts I've worked with. The best place to try this first is in your own chart (or the chart of very close others in your life). You will either receive validation (ie it will make sense to you) or it won't! I don't know about other astrologers, but I can tell you that this works just fine for me.
RE: Neptune trines being 'bad' -- I was blessed at birth with
several exact trines/sextiles to a very angular Neptune, and I thank my
lucky stars for the 'intuition' this has given me. I have never considered
such to work out badly, save one particular time period in my life when
that Neptune was seriously afflicted by major planets by transit.
99 percent of the time, I wouldn't trade my Neptune and its aspects for
anything! However, I do know of a few individuals, who, despite wonderful
aspects to Neptune, have had to deal with some typical negative Neptunian-type
problems. One is a woman who grew up in an alcoholic and severely
dysfunctional family and copes with a chronic illness and the other is
a man born with handicaps. But even these individuals have had positive
manifestations of Neptune in their lives. Basically, I've found that those
with the typical squares/oppositions to Neptune have had far more to cope
with, OR they have had a harder time coping with their 'adversities' than
those born with positive aspects. I've always found, however, that
adding in TNP's and asteroids tell the story in a much more in-depth way.
Just my observations. :-)
I appreciate the responses people have given me to my questions. Mary I loved your description of the Graphics designer with the Neppy trine. Certainly art that subtle can be missed. Then again I once knew a guy into performance art who once went to a big "art" party and unrolled a large roll of white paper in all the rooms and then proceeded to paint it white. Naturally many of the guests just walked all over it and began to track the paint all over the house. Fortunately for my friend the wealthy host of the party loved his concept. Drat I wish I knew his chart! (he also videotaped a long sequence of moving at a snails pace thru Miami rush hour traffic in his car. I have to admit I loved the concept, but wouldn't want to actually have to sit thru the whole video.) Anyway the concept of problematic soft Neptunian aspects is thought provoking.....
Penny, just curious to what you said about the 90 degree dial not missing other cosmic factors. I really like the intense focus of the 22.5 dial, but mayhaps this is just a honeymoon period. Can you say a little more about the drawbacks of such a concentrated dial?
And Val you of course are one of the people I think of when I think
of a strong Neptune influence, and its advantages........ I
can say with my Mars square Neptune - I find nothing subtle in that, just
lots of confusion about men and partners. But with the soft aspects
it may be true that they are less visible to me per se. With Neptune
conj Ascendent I pretty much come across as somewhat inept, and I admit
it is (usually!) amusing to have some coworker come up to me with the startling
revelation that I do indeed have a brain, a rather good one in fact.....
this has happened to me over and over so I know my appearance is misleading
to others..... Yeah Neptune is definitely a mixed blessing.
Janus Members Photos MAIN INDEX SEARCH TRICKS What's New Books Dials
Copyright Email TNPs Software General-Ur-Cosmo Beginners FAQs Locality