Saturn Square Neptune,  Astrocartography

Date:          Sun, 31 May 1998 09:47:36 +0000 

    Thank you for some very astute observations. Yes, I am sure you are 
correct. I particularly had a good laugh at your comments on negative 
interpretations. I guess the other side of that coin is reality itself. 
Another way to approach the mundane map is to calculate the Moon phases for 
a certain area and study the Ascendant and Meridians for that location. A 
sensible approach is to calculate these for the area in which one lives to 
see what possible influence these configurations might have on the place 
where we live. Penny. 

The Uranian Group wrote: 

> Dear Uranians, 

> When I woke up this morning I decided to read awhile instead of 
> getting out of bed.  Sunday mornings are good for this sort of thing, 
> especially when an Autumn wind storm is blowing outside.  So, I reached 
> over and picked up one of my favourite astrology books, "Hymns to the 
> Ancient Gods" by Michael Harding.  Opening the book at random, I was 
> surprised to find that I turned to the chapter on 'A Case Study of Saturn 
> and Neptune'.  I suddenly was wide awake. Penny's Planetary Warning post 
> provoked me to wonder how and where the Saturn-Neptune energies would 
> manifest, and here I had coincidentally turned to relevant text material 
> that I had forgotten about. 

> Harding's explanation deals with the Sa Ne conjunction, not the 
> square which is looming upon us on 25 June (26th here in New 
> Zealand).  Nevertheless, the planetary energies are of course very 
> similar.  Twenty-eight pages in this superb book reveal how the Sa-Ne 
> energies bring forth  political / religious / scientific manifestations. 

> Examples (abridged): 

> 1665 / 1666 = Great Plague, Great Schism with Russian 
> Church, Newton's Laws of Gravity. 

> 1917 / 1918 = Influenza pandemic, Russian Revolution, 
> Typhus bacillus isolated and the explosive 'amatol' invented. 

> 1952 / 53 / 54 = first hydrogen bomb, three major telescopes opened, 
> Myxomatosis spread to rabbits 

> During the last week two items have dominated world news: 
> nuclear tensions between India and Pakistan, and the discovery of a 
> planet outside of our solar system by the Hubble Telescope (launched 
> in 1990, during a Sa Ne conjunction !  The American astronomer said, 
> on the TV news, that if confirmed, this planetary discovery will rank with 
> the findings of Galileo and Copernicus.  Now, I do not know about others 
> on this list, but when I read Penny's post, the first thing that I thought 
> of was a (shudder !) possible nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan. 

> With this in mind, I have had a look at how the planetary energies 
> fall on India and Pakistan  during the next two months.  I am no 
> expert in Astrocartography, or for that matter, in Mundane astrology, but 
> my findings are interesting and disturbing... 

> What I found were the following energies crossing over India and 
> Pakistan: Hades and  Pluto, and also the midpoint of Saturn and 
> Neptune (which must be highly significant due to the Sa sq Ne aspect 
> at the same time ! 

> The 'natal' charts were cast for various times from 10 June to 
> 10 July, located at Delhi, India. If there are astrocartographic 
> experts reading this post who have other methods of producing valid 
> maps, please email me. Here are a few details: 

> These two lines cross over India when the Saturn Sq Neptune aspect is 
> exact.  The lines (on an astrocartography map) travel from east to west 
> and first hit India a few days prior to the exact Sa sq Ne, and then pass 
> over Pakistan during the first half of July. 

> crosses India during July.  This is actually the midpoint between 
> the lines    Sa on the Mc    and    Ne on the Mc.    Saturn is to the east 
> of India/Pakistan, while Neptune is to the west;  the distance half-way 
> between these two lines on a world map is the midpoint line. 

> The astrocartographic significance of planetary energies on the Asc, 
> Dsc, and Mc are as follows: 

> ASC:   Here, the force the planet expresses itself through direct, 
> outward, expression. The native's (i.e. India)  personality focuses 
> the force of the planet as a lens does light and is thus identified 
> by the planet's nature. 

> DSC: Here, the force of the planet expresses itself 
> by attracting circumstances, people and situations like its own 
> nature. Thus, difficult planets can be most dangerous here, as they 
> tend to draw problems and challenges to you. 

> MH:   Here, the force of the planet expresses itself 
> socially, and the social milieu and environment in which the native 
> finds themselves resembles the nature of the planet found there. 

> So, what does this all mean ? 
> The planetary energies could be interpreted as: 

> HA on DSC = India attracts the dangerous qualities of Hades, such as 
> disintegration, ruins, secrecy, sinister or disagreeable influences. 
> Therefore, as a worse case scenario, India makes secret war plans 
> that will destroy cities, etc.  (Note: I could easily have located 
> the 'natal' charts on Pakistan; I am not trying to takes sides here; 
> I am not trying to show India as the 'wrong side'.  The planetary 
> energies cross into Pakistan also.) 

> PL on ASC = India (or Pakistan) focuses the Plutonian energies of 
> transformation, mass movements, military dictatorship. This leads to 
> great upheavals, beginnings and endings.  Although I no longer have 
> Harding and Harvey's book 'Working With Astrology', from memory I 
> believe that PL on the DSC was right on Berlin when Hitler invaded 
> Poland. 

> PL / HA  (from the book of Rules) = 
> The situation or condition worsens. Dishonesty. An evil change. 

> SA / NE on the MH = suffering, distrust, insecurity, the readiness 
> for sacrifice, chronic conditions, trecherous diseases.  Thus, war or 
> epidemics affect the society, the populations of India and Pakistan. 

> For those of you who have been with this list since last year, you 
> will undoubtedly remember that a rather 'hot' debate transpired about 
> overly negative interpretations of planetary energies (as found in COSI 
> and Rules).  So, if you feel like sending me 'hate mail' for the above 
> super-negative interpretations, I guess I deserve it. 

> Perhaps I should note that Harding's book (Hymns to the Ancient Gods) has 
> over six pages of Sa Ne historic notes, from the year 734 up to 1990, and 
> that *positive* manifestations are given (eg. the compass and astrolabe to 
> the collapse of the Berlin Wall and the Chunnel). However, we are dealing 
> with a square, not a conjunction.  Anyway, just maybe the United Nations 
> will swing the India-Pakistan conflict around so that the scientists there 
> will cooperate to make major breakthroughs in cancer or AIDS ...   ??? 
> Penny's post did include the PP's of   Saturn / Poseiden   and   Aires / 
> Apollon,  and this may signify scientific advancements. 

> Whatever happens, it looks like we are in for some interesting times 
> ahead. 

> Kind Regards, 

> Steve 


Date:          Sun, 31 May 1998 18:11:21 +0000 
Subject:       64th harmonic Sa sq Ne & Astrocartography 
Dear Steve and Uranians, 

Just to quickly add to Steve's interesting (very) post on the coming 

Here I'm using the 64th harmonic chart of the above SA/NE square to 
see what the micro-aspects are doing, the major configurations (all 
exact) are: 

SA/NE =PL - SU/MA=IC (2 orb) - SU/MA/PL=MC for Delhi 
That is: 
Saturn -0- Neptune is -45- to Pluto 
Sun -0- Mars is -0- IC (2 orb) 
Sun/Mars/Pluto (midpoint) -180- to MC/IC axis set for Delhi 

The SA -90- NE is also a illness aspect!. 
MA/PL -180- MC from COSI : 
Positive: "Unusual capabilities of advancement in life, self 
confidence, ambition" 
Negative: "...danger through the intervention of Higher Power..." 
SU/PL -180- MC 
"...the qualities of leadership..." 
"...the experience of physical interference or violence with 
physical or emotional consequences" 

I think the potential for assassination of a leading figure is quite 
strong with this aspect picture. 




Date:          Fri, 29 May 1998 07:56:36 +0000

    I am sure those of you who study the aspects are aware of the
following dynamic gathering of energies in space. As Saturn travels from
Aries (fire)  into Taurus (earth) a tremendous and malefic power pattern is
beginning to form.

    For the traditional astrologer Saturn (in Taurus-earth) will be
squaring Neptune (in Aquarius-Air) , this in itself is a dreaded aspect for
health, among other influences. Uranian astrologers now must take note of
the full blown configuration that is triggered by the square of these two
giant planets. When a huge storm is brewing, the wise batten down the
hatches. When an inner plane weather pattern is forming, astrologers warn
their clients and protect their loved ones.

    If you study the planetary configurations for the year, then you
have been watching the following picture form since last year. I have
not seen or heard anyone in astrology mention this configuration on the net,
however. I might have missed a mention of it on this site. It is critical to
remind you now that it is upon us. The picture follows.

Saturn = Neptune = Hades = Aries/Vulcanus = Aries/Apollon = Uranus/Pluto =
Pluto/Kronos = Zeus/Cupido = Cupido/Admetos = Saturn/Poseidon = Aries/Node


The axis that all these energies are centered on follows: (22.30)

1-3 degrees  fixed signs
9-10  degrees Cardinal signs
24-25 degrees fixed signs
17 degrees mutable signs


All four of our outer planets (all considered malefics) will be joined
in this one axis in a close configuration. On the 4th quarter Moon of
the 17th Mars will join in.

All 8 of the transneptunians will be forming a pattern that is included in
this configuration.

The ARIES (world) axis now equals the explosive configuration of


The answer is a very definite YES! Like most patterns, this
configuration has never happened before in our century or long before
this century even. Currently, June has a number of triggered
configurations that are includes in these same axes. The warning is
given for those people who have important natal or directed factors at
these degrees.


    The great thing about astrology is that we can see danger coming. We can
also see it leaving. Yes, to see it leaving . . . this is the wonderful gift
we possess that we can share with others.

   Have you seen the 'Archive'of our group mail ?

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